My course requires me to spend some time in the practice of (Christian) spiritual disciplines. If I remember right, it's one discipline per month for four months.
You can see by my vagueness that I haven't given a great deal of attention to this requirement but the day is coming closer when I will have to document my experiences.
The first question to answer is: what are the spiritual disciplines I can choose from?
A quick google reveals no consistent list, instead there are titles like:
- 5 spiritual disciplines to change your life
- 12 spiritual disciplines to make your faith strong
- 7 spiritual disciplines
I know that the majority of you are atheists so I won't go on too much but I did find this list which looks to me to be appropriate
- Prayer
- Fasting
- Simplicity
- Fellowship
- Journaling
- Stewardship
- Submission/Obedience
- Study
- Evangelism
- Contemplation
- Confession
- Solitude
- Gratitude
- Self-Examination
- Silence
- Meditation
I just can't imagine fasting and not because I couldn't miss a meal. I do love my food but in terms of hunger, I think I am capable of missing a meal or two. The social aspect of eating is the part I struggle with, even just trying to lose weight means having to say no to social eating over and over again and some people are relentless in their efforts to get someone to join them. To actually fast would require me to live alone. On an island.
Prayer, silence and stewardship are already part of my life. Gratitude, meditation, simplicity and fellowship wax and wane but are familiar.
I have tried journaling but though I write, I'm not a spiritual journal keeping type of person.
So, whether you are Christian, atheist or identify with another variation on religious or non-religious practice, what kind of practices do you use to enrich your life?
Even an atheist understands most of these disciplines. I would not recommend fasting to lose weight or as a discipline. When I was married, I lost weight from October to January and ate at every eating opportunity of celebration. I just did not eat a bread that day if I knew there was a party with goodies. So, you can lose weight and be with others to eat. I lost weight in college by eating only one bite of cake and that was mostly icing. I just wish I were that disciplined now! Study and simplicity sound good. Why, even an atheist can do that.
ReplyDeleteI always think that banging on about Christian stuff around atheists is a good way to alienate them.
DeleteI like all the wrong foods and eat them too often, maybe I should try having just one bite of cake.
Kylie banging on about Christian stuff or Athiestic stuff to anyone of the opposite persuasion isn't likely to produce any positive results but any moderate thinker will happily discuss other people's views.
DeleteI agree with you Graham. This post could turn into a 2000 word essay, though and I feel that's pushing it 😊
DeleteAs an American, I'm unfamiliar with precisely what "banging around" means, although I fancy that it has something to do with talking on and on about a subject that is of little or no interest to your listener.
DeleteAs you know, I quite enjoy discussing religion. Being preached to or insulted is another matter (i.e. "even an atheist understands" or "even an atheist can do that," etc.).
you got it on one, Snow.
DeleteAppreciation/gratitude is the one which speaks loudest to me. And silence.
ReplyDeleteYes, I can easily see that gratitude is second nature to you and I'm unsurprised about silence
DeleteThank you. My father would be amazed at the second. As a child he often told me that my tongue was hinged in the middle and wagged at both ends. These days, particularly if I am troubled, I do very quiet, while I process (attempt to process) whatever it is.
DeleteHinged in the middle and wagged both ends 😂 sounds a close relative of "Kylie is easily distracted"
DeleteI've been giving this quite a lot of thought. I am atheist. However I don't see any conflict between that and considering many of the things you have listed. Obviously I don't pray or worship nor do I consider 'spiritual' matters in the way that a Christian or a Muslim would but I can still think about things beyond my 'ken'. All in all there's plenty on your list to consider for an atheist.
ReplyDeleteYes, whether we come to these practices through religion or as a simple matter of self care and personal growth, most people will eventually consider them.
DeleteMy problem is going to be changing my habitual practices enough to convincingly comment on what I learn!
I believe we all have our own practices Kylie. One of mine is writing, journaling, seeking enlightenment from Gaia or the universe. What can I do to make myself feel better? Most of the time the answer is to reach out. A very difficult thing for me to do but when I do it I feel better. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteAnd like the old wag said about overeating: It's not what you're eating, it's what's eating you.
XO
WWW
When we spiral down we forget what helps us so I'm unsurprised you don't always reach out.
DeleteAs for what's eating me, I know it was a rhetorical question but years of unemployment and financial stress was terrible for my weight, then factor in menopause and being minimally active.....
Simplicity is important to me - as are contemplation, gratitude, silence, self-examination, solitude and fellowship. I wouldn't say that I have consciously adopted any "practices" in relation to these facets of my life, they just feature importantly in the way that I happen to exist. I have never had any inclination to fast as devout Muslims do during the month of Ramadan. It seems so medieval and rather pointless. Certainly not good for diabetics of whom there are many in the Islamic fold.
ReplyDeleteWalking is your practice and it encompasses all of the things you memtion although your fellowship is more likely to be at trivia.
DeleteI never thought of fasting and diabetes, I'm sure there are exemptions from ramadan fasting and people with diabetes would surely qualify
I am an athiest, although I prefer the name secular humanist, and the thing I find most enriching in my life - being out in nature - is not on the list, which rather surprises me. Although it does include, for me at least, contemplation, solitude, gratitude, silence and self-examination. I also find that fellowship makes me feel better when I am very lost, but it's also hardest to initiate at those times. I don't know if any of those practices mean the same things to religious versus non-religious folks, however. I perceive the focus being different - i.e., for religious folks the practices are funneled through a higher being, whereas for non-religious folks they are funneled through ourselves. A very interesting question, kylie; I like and appreciate the fact that you include everyone in your discussions on religion through the kind of questions you ask.
ReplyDeleteJenny, as a fellow atheist, I understand your preference for a term that expresses what you believe rather than what you don't believe. My problem with the term "secular humanist" is that it appears to include every atheist, yet whether this is true depends upon how it is defined. For example, most atheists probably accept the core premise of humanism, which--as I understand it--is that human experience and human rationality constitute our only sources of knowledge and morality. Unfortunately humanism more often holds that human life is superior to other life and that human rights and human concerns outweigh the rights and concerns of other creatures. This opens the way to the notion that nonhuman life is a tool for our use and a means to our ends. I instead see nonhumans as fellow voyagers whose lives, however different from ours, are of equal value to ours.
DeleteI would be honored if you should see fit to respond to any of what I have said on the subject.
... and by "it does include" I am referring to "being out in nature"
ReplyDeleteMaybe that was apparent but I don't think so!
I am also surprised that service to others is not on the list.
ReplyDeleteService to others most probably falls under stewardship.
DeleteHi Anne - On delving a bit deeper into the concept, I believe you are absolutely right.
DeleteHi Jenny,
DeleteOne of the links I read specifically mentioned being in nature as a thing people feel helps them connect to their greater power. It's not counted as a discipline because it's not mentioned in scripture. which leads me to muse on the idea that in biblical times people were pretty much always in nature so it probably wouldn't be worth a mention for them.
I also read a link where service was mentioned specifically and I think it probably is more worthy of a mention than something like journaling which would be well covered under the banners of meditation or self examination.
I do fasting on occasion. It helps to clear my head from the worry about what is next (meaning meals)
ReplyDeleteWe devote an extraordinary amount of brain power to meals!
DeleteAn old Irishman was asked what he thought about when he sat in church.
ReplyDelete*Well,* he said, *I sit and look at Him, and He looks at me.*
Spending time with the Lord, as you do with your family, is the alpha and omega.
I came to faith through a fascination with Paul, reading every scholarly book I could find on him; and Paul leads us to Christ. Paul gave up everything to follow Jesus, and was probably beheaded in Rome, after months in a filthy dungeon.
*John Piper - Would you want Heaven Without Jesus?*
YouTube. Desiring God. 22 May 2013.
Jack Haggerty
*John Piper - Nobody is scared into heaven.*
DeleteYouTube. Desiring God. May 22 2013.
"I sit and look at HIm and he looks at me" is a lovely way to express it. Especially in a world wheer we become bogged down in worship culture wars.
DeleteIt reminds me of a conversation I once had when someone talked about going to church to offer something to God and I replied that I went to get something. My friend replied that acknowledging my need to "get" something was in fact an offering
*Worship culture wars* is a daunting term, new to me.
DeleteI was angry when I read about the odious celebrity culture of Hillsong worship.
It occurred to me that John Piper's theology is too heavy for many people.
You might enjoy listening to Sister Gaudia Skass: YouTube.
And Father Ed Trevors, a liberal Epsicopalian priest in Nova Scotia: YouTube.
A friend of mine said that I talk like a liberal while being very reformed.
I got this from Francis Schaeffer who studied under J. Gresham Machen.
Machen (1881-1937) said liberal Christianity was another religion.
While I question Machen's bold claim, I see truths in it.
Liberal theology (19th Century) came in speaking much about Jesus and love.
It was weak on doctrine, and if there is no Heaven or Hell, what's at stake?
The very reformed R.C. Sproul (YouTube) was asked before his death what he struggled with. *Hell,* was his reply.
I have noticed the Four Last Things have returned in the theology of John-Henry Westen (YouTube) and The Vortex with Michael Voris, Church Militant (YouTube).
Ignatius Loyola (see his Spiritual Exercises) used to wake himself up in the middle of the night to pray: it was about prayer reaching down to the unconscious. Prayer entering that space where we dream.
Jack H
I am a fan of simplicity! And keeping things clean. I write a non-spiritual journal to keep track of things - actually, marking time is big with me.
ReplyDeleteI don't recommend fasting either - being hungry just makes people tetchy in my experience.
Sx
Cleanliness is next to Godliness, as they say! and it helps keep the psyche fresh.
DeleteI am very familiar with hangry people, tetchy is right!
I think my spiritual practice is optimism. That and trying to learn from new situations rather than writing them off. And I'd also go for simplicity.
ReplyDeleteYes you seem to do simplicity well. I've been quite good at optimism but these days I use the word faith instead. Optimism hopes for a good outcome, faith is more a matter of saying that I'll trust God even when I see nothing to be happy about.
Deletekylie, surely you must know that the purpose of fasting as a spiritual discipline has nothing at all to do with losing weight. Or even cleansing the body, for that matter.
ReplyDeleteRobert, I do absolutely know that. I was just saying that if I can't even say no to a piece of cake offered by someone persistent, how would I expect to go with missing whole meals and being truly hungry?
Delete"surely you must know that the purpose of fasting as a spiritual discipline has nothing at all to do with losing weight."
DeleteI demure on the basis that it's easier to pray if a person isn't too fat to kneel.... Please forgive my failing memory because I just recalled that that you're a Methodist, and Methodists don't kneel anyway, hence they can go to a "dinner on the ground" (what a delightful term) and eat all the food and the dishes too.
Meditation, prayer and reading books on Religion and Philosophy.
ReplyDeleteAnd it shows 😊
DeleteKylie, how do you account for the fact that most of your readers are atheists?! I hadn't remotely considered such a possibility, but it is certainly very much to your credit that atheists find your blog interesting enough--and your treatment of them respectful enough--that they (we) want to be here. It is surely a rarity, and I envy you the gift you have for making it possible.
ReplyDeleteLike one or two others, I found the list interesting for what it omitted. I even wondered how it would have been different had MLK, Gandhi, or Albert Schweitzer created it. I would guess that "evangelism" might have given way to something along the order of "compassion," "feeding the hungry," or "working for social justice." Perhaps, "fellowship" would have been replaced by what you are doing, which is "cultivating friendship with people unlike yourself" (I'm referring to atheists, and I very much doubt that the writers of the New Testament would have countenanced it).
It's a bit of an aside, but in regard to fasting, Peggy and I used to fast for one 24-hour day per week. We did this for health reasons but found it emotionally meaningful as well. Sometimes, we would break our fast by eating huckleberries and salal berries on the Oregon coast. How delicious they were!
Snow,
DeleteI have no idea how to account for the religious leanings of my readers, maybe if I counted it wouldn't even be correct that you are mostly atheist, maybe I just notice you more when I want to post something religious.
Assuming that I have made some kind of achievement, I would hope it would be because I think I understand where you are coming from. The decision to believe or not can easily go one way or another and the evidence is not something we can quantify.
I don't personally regard evangelism as a spiritual discipline, more as a spiritual gift but who am i to say?
Compassion is interesting, it's not listed but it is the second great commandment "love one another"
Surely the wrters of the NT would have been friendly to those who didn't believe? Jesus was always carousing with some pharisee or other outsider?
Your comments on fasting are interesting. I had never considered that it might have any emotional worth but it is mentioned repeatedly in the bible and is almost an assumed practice. If I thinkabout the biblical imperative of forgiveness and it's importance to mental health, it would make sense thatfasting will have some important benefit.
"The decision to believe or not can easily go one way or another and the evidence is not something we can quantify."
DeleteI believe that, for me, the outcome inevitably followed the first doubt I ever had. I also suspect that many, perhaps most, atheists would deny that there is any evidence whatsoever to suggest the existence of God. But if this is true, why do most people believe? Aside from whatever emotional comfort and group solidarity belief might bring, I've heard the supposed answer referred to as "the God of the gaps." What this means is that the word God is plugged into blank spaces in our knowledge as the presumed answer to all manner of questions. For example, where did the universe come from? God made the universe. What is the purpose for our existence? God created us that we might worship Him. Etc. This is done without evidence, and the more answers science can provide, the less reason there is for claiming that an undefinable being called God is the answer. Now...
Although your ability to keep your heart open to those whom many believers look down upon or despise is immensely attractive, it takes more than an open heart to hold the interest of atheistic readers. The following is a poll of how much different groups of Americans know about religion: https://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/. The conclusion of this poll is that, although they are closely followed by Jews and Mormons, atheists know a great deal more about religion than do other religious groups. As to why they know so much, one of the researchers wrote the following:
"American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study. These are people who thought a lot about religion. They're not indifferent. They care about it."
Unfortunately, this doesn't explain why their interest continues even after they've renounced religion, nor does it explain why they know more than do religious people themselves. After all, many members of the latter group spend hours a week in a setting where it is claimed that a knowledge of God and the Bible are of enormous importance.
Definitely not enough of any of those Kylie. Though I guess I regularly practise Contemplation in nature, and Silence and Solitude fit perfectly with that. As a younger person I spent years journaling - it very much kept me sane. I don't do it now because I'm a bit fed up with all of my issues! Time to accept myself and just get on with it.
ReplyDeleteBased on the fact that most people seem to exist in ignorance of what motivates them and what their issues are, I have an odd belief that once a person has figured it out the cure is not far away. Self acceptance works well, I think. Maybe you could journal about it :) after some gardening, perhaps
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